Garmins' City Navigator NT China

[phnompenhpaul]

I just got back from a two week trip to China, and liked it so much that I am going back in the near future.
This in mind, I looked into buying(!) the Garmin China map.

I am appalled to read some of the reviews about this product, and the lack of customer care and response from Garmin.
The City Navigator is apparently designed in conjunction with Chinas stipulation that a large degree of error is built into the map (for security reasons!), rendering the entire map useless!
Some complain of a shift of more than 1000 feet, and one said his map was up to a mile out of sync!

The whole point of taking a GPS unit away on holiday with you is to find your way around town, and to not get lost, while this China map could actually put the user at risk with such a large shift error.

I've got away with the world base map (actually accurate), whilst in China, and made a point of recording the hotel or hostel coordinates where I was staying, before venturing out.
That way, even without a street detail map, it was fairly easy to find my way back without any problem.
Leaving the track log switched on to record my walking or taxi ride was also very helpful, although if anyone is considering using this method to backtrack, remember to delete or save the old tracklog BEFORE you start out.
That way, its easier to follow it back, without confusing it with an older tracklog.

Is there anyone out there, that's aware of an open source map of China (even cities), that's available without the enforced 'error' of the Garmin one?
I have saved a few tracklogs of Beijing and Nanning, if anyone is actually in the process of compiling a map.
There are also a few hotels, hostels, railway stations, bus stations and attraction waypoints if anyone wants them.

I also learned that the government are not to happy with seeing GPS units being used in China, but I had no problems at all, and carried mine through all the security checks in Tiananmen Square and around Beijing without a single question being asked.

If Garmin are going to continue to sell a what I consider to be a defective product, then maybe it's time we got some of our tracklogs together to see what we can come up with.
I'm not technically savvy enough to be able to actually compile a working .img file, but am more than willing to submit my current, and any future tracklogs to anyone who may find them useful.

Catch you all later.
Have a great day :ciao:

[lurkin]

I just got back from a two week trip to China, and liked it so much that I am going back in the near future.
This in mind, I looked into buying(!) the Garmin China map.

I am appalled to read some of the reviews about this product, and the lack of customer care and response from Garmin.
The City Navigator is apparently designed in conjunction with Chinas stipulation that a large degree of error is built into the map (for security reasons!), rendering the entire map useless!
Some complain of a shift of more than 1000 feet, and one said his map was up to a mile out of sync!

The whole point of taking a GPS unit away on holiday with you is to find your way around town, and to not get lost, while this China map could actually put the user at risk with such a large shift error.

I've got away with the world base map (actually accurate), whilst in China, and made a point of recording the hotel or hostel coordinates where I was staying, before venturing out.
That way, even without a street detail map, it was fairly easy to find my way back without any problem.
Leaving the track log switched on to record my walking or taxi ride was also very helpful, although if anyone is considering using this method to backtrack, remember to delete or save the old tracklog BEFORE you start out.
That way, its easier to follow it back, without confusing it with an older tracklog.

Is there anyone out there, that's aware of an open source map of China (even cities), that's available without the enforced 'error' of the Garmin one?
I have saved a few tracklogs of Beijing and Nanning, if anyone is actually in the process of compiling a map.
There are also a few hotels, hostels, railway stations, bus stations and attraction waypoints if anyone wants them.

I also learned that the government are not to happy with seeing GPS units being used in China, but I had no problems at all, and carried mine through all the security checks in Tiananmen Square and around Beijing without a single question being asked.

If Garmin are going to continue to sell a what I consider to be a defective product, then maybe it's time we got some of our tracklogs together to see what we can come up with.
I'm not technically savvy enough to be able to actually compile a working .img file, but am more than willing to submit my current, and any future tracklogs to anyone who may find them useful.

Catch you all later.
Have a great day :ciao:

That's an interesting post, thanks for that.

Yes, it is true that the City Navigator China will show a certain offset to the actual position.
But the Chinese have already a solution for that; just need to visit a local Chinese Garmin dealer and they will upload some fix onto your Garmin device. From what I know this "fix" will correct your position while in China and it will not produce incorrect reading when out of China.

Also, you are allowed to use a GPS in China, however without recording any tracks, this is officially disallowed :cool:

To create our own map of China from publicly available source is actually possible, will take about 1 week. As long as one does not insist on having land and sea separated in colors.
The trouble is that the download from public sources does not recognize the coastline as a real separation line so land and sea will have the same color. To create an ocean layer in order the have the colors separated is a huge task due to the length of the coastline.

I am currently working on the Hong Kong map, to create the correct layers for the HK islands will take about 1 week.

[phnompenhpaul]

That's an interesting post, thanks for that.

Yes, it is true that the City Navigator China will show a certain offset to the actual position.
But the Chinese have already a solution for that; just need to visit a local Chinese Garmin dealer and they will upload some fix onto your Garmin device. From what I know this "fix" will correct your position while in China and it will not produce incorrect reading when out of China.

Also, you are allowed to use a GPS in China, however without recording any tracks, this is officially disallowed :cool:

To create our own map of China from publicly available source is actually possible, will take about 1 week. As long as one does not insist on having land and sea separated in colors.
The trouble is that the download from public sources does not recognize the coastline as a real separation line so land and sea will have the same color. To create an ocean layer in order the have the colors separated is a huge task due to the length of the coastline.

I am currently working on the Hong Kong map, to create the correct layers for the HK islands will take about 1 week.

Thanks for the insight Lurkin, and also congrats on the dedication and effort you are putting into the site.
I made a donation before I went on holiday, as I made good use of the Vietnam street map (avoiding 'long' taxi rides by pointing the driver in the right direction!).
I fully appreciate the effort required for compiling maps, and applaud your dedication.
I hope that people who are downloading the maps can find a few dollars to help the site keep going, and appreciate the difference in price if they were to buy a Garmin 'original' (if even available for out area.
I would like to learn how to make my own maps, but my job leaves me very little time to spend on hobbies (Air Traffic Control at Phnom Penh International Airport).:banghead:
I am now looking for where to send my tracklogs and waypoints, POI's, in case they are useful to anyone making updates or new maps.

Thanks again Lurkin, and all others involved in keeping this site up and running :congrats:

[lurkin]

Hello Paul,

On behalf of the asiaGPS mapping team I would like to say a big thank you for your donation as well as for your very positive and encouraging feedback.

Just to clarify, the Vietnam map originates from the mapping efforts by my fellow co-admin "rcmaps" and has been further developed and enhanced by Ryo using very valuable information contributed mainly by Alan, cflai9353 and few others. So, I myself am not involved into the Vietnam map at all. Your highly appreciated feedback goes to those involved.

While the vast majority of our members just signs up to harvest as many as possible free maps - some of them are even so impudent to steal our tracklogs and upload them on other mapping websites claiming them as their own - the number of those who are actively supporting this website and mapping efforts either by donating small $ amounts or providing feedback in form of recorded tracklogs and POI's can be counted on little more than 2 hands.

Thank you again for your appreciation, I wish we had more members like yourself who value mappers hard work and respect intellectual property.

Thanks